为开放源代码的先锋ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ说几句 -linjiaotou(林教头) @沙加缅度华人论坛:沙加缅度枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Sacramento

为开放源代码的先锋ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ说几句

linjiaotou(林教头)

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛世上很多人不明白，为什么总有一部分ｄｉｅ－ｈａｒｄ份子（我只是个半吊子）一定要坚持用类似ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ这种玩具？费力不讨好嘛。实在不爱用微软系统，可以玩Ｌｉｎｕｘ及其变种吗，至少那还有ｆｕｌｌ　ｔｅｃｈ　ｓｕｐｐｏｒｔ，不至于老在黑暗中自我摸索。对大多数人来讲，最终目的不就是为了应用吗？只要能运行所需的应用软件和工具，论坛博客之类能用，管它下面的系统是什么呢！

这个原因，其实就跟爱车族差不多，属于“文化”方面的。爱好ＢＳＤ一类系统的人，一般是系统管理员或系统程序开发员。我只说跟我有关的原因吧（因为我自己没有系统及其工具开发的水平）。

首先，ＢＳＤ很酷很强大，同样的性能表现所需的硬件资源比Ｌｉｎｕｘ少，为了同样的性能表现，你只需花３０元买一台ＢＳＤ牌旧车，而不必花３００元买一台Ｌｉｎｕｘ牌新车。

其次，自己摸来摸去很有成就感，就如同很多人喜欢开旧车、自己鼓捣一个道理。

最后，ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ给人的自由确实不可限量，只要你能把它玩得转，你可以将它装在一台ＰＣ上，多老旧的都没事，用作运行ＢＧＰ的网关路由器－－用高档ＰＣ的话，不比思科路由器差。真有点“人有多大胆地有多大产”的意思，正如那句名言所谓的“Ｉｎｓｉｄｅ　ｙｏｕｒ　ＰＣ　ｉｓ　ａ　ｄａｅｍｏｎ　ｗａｉｔｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ｕｎｌｅａｓｈｅｄ。　Ｆｒｅｅ　ｉｔ　ｗｉｔｈ　ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ！”（你的个人电脑中潜伏着一个威力强大的伺服器。用自由ＢＳＤ释放它吧！）

ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ万岁！自由属于开放源码！阿闷！更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

(#3763699@0)
Last Updated: 2007-6-25
This post has been archived. It cannot be replied.

Freebsd和Linux在效率上真有10倍之差吗？另外使用及操作方便性方面我感觉两个好像差不多啊－命令集类似，至于packaging一个用YUM/UP2DATE，另一个用PORT，也是异曲同工啊 -whatthehell(cyberman); 2007-6-25 (#3764359@0)

不要扣数字，我随便举个例。两者在应用层上越来越相似，差别是在硬件要求：BSD系统最低内存要求是4MB（这对虚拟VMware是个大好消息），Linux行吗？！至少得128MB吧？嘿嘿。 -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-26 {98} (#3766436@0)
这个差别主要因为BSD利用虚拟内存（硬盘）作swap空间，而Linux作swap耗的是真实内存。当然还有别的差别。

I saw some product based on Linux only have 4M RAM, such as Linksys wireless G router. -rea1(rea1); 2007-6-26 (#3766690@0)

我说的是多用户操作系统。不是专用件。 -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-26 (#3766892@0)

哪个Linux 告诉你至少128M 内存？Linux 只是一个kernel 而已。 -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3767814@0)

不记得了，反正这是不争事实，两个“操作系统”的显著差别之一。 -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768511@0)

"不争事实"？ Linux 和 FreeBSD 都可以 customize kernel. 可大可小。敢问，你用过linux 和FreeBSD 吗？ -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768548@0)

don't ask me - google yourself! yup, i've been using both OSs for almost 10 yrs, although i've never done any stress testing myself. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 {405} (#3768606@0)
having said that, i recognize linux is catching up more and more and getting quite even now, due to its relative ease of use and especially the commercial support!

here are two old articles for your reference:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-501149.html?legacy=zdnn
http://archive.salon.com/tech/fsp/2000/05/16/chapter_2_part_one/index.html

you can see then my knowledge could be out-dated ;)

You were reading some articles dated 2000/05/16? Where are you doing for the recent 7 years? ;) btw, do you mind if you google me the 128M requirement for a Linux kernel? I didn't have any luck searching for that piece of information. -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768613@0)

u r right, i m the old-timer ;) i am not talking about kernels, but comparing the OS with apps. hey, dont pick on my numbers; but my point is: linux demands more memory than fbsd fer sure. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768629@0)

What do you mean by 'comparing the OS with apps.'? Apps run on top of the OS. "linux demands more memory than fbsd for sure", can you please show me any numbers that can support your point? -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768648@0)

sorry dude, i don't have the links right now but i'll provide once i get some time. if u check the user community mailing lists, u may find the info. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 {157} (#3768689@0)
128mb might be exaggerating but me and other users never were able to install text-mode for under 64mb yrs ago, for reasonable networking and server req'ts.

Which Linux distro are you using, man? Have you tried something like Slackware or Gentoo? -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768693@0)

how about Debian, one of the few kinds i used. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768736@0)

Personally, I don't like Debian because its rigid stance on FREE software. :) -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768756@0)

well, that's not my original point. :) it's worth ur time if u haven't tried *bsd. if u do, pls let me know so that i'll have one more buddy for help :) -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768778@0)

I've been using FreeBSD since 3.x. -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3769319@0)

by that i meant comparing the two "OSs/kernels+apps". sorry for the confusion. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768753@0)

plus, i stopped reading since 2000 or so...LoL -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768638@0)

Then catch up. ;) -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768642@0)

fer sure. this is one of my purposes of writing this controversial "article". :) -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768732@0)

by default only, if u done kernel hacking u should know linux pretty much can do the same. -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 {236} (#3768628@0)
anyway, no offense to bsd users, lots of places are using it, banks as well as gov/edu. personally I think it is more stable due to the selective packaging.
I think it is more about what you want, what you have and what you can get.

Agreed! :) -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768682@0)
1st, i want to make it clear i'm only a 1/2-qualified bsd user (and user only). 2nd, i am not talking about kernel only, as i already emphasized. 3rd, more and more corps move to linux or its variants nowadays... -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768730@0)

Isn't it too slow to use hard disk as swap space? Is it still a good idea since memory is so cheap now? -new_guy(new); 2007-6-27 (#3767993@0)

我是半吊子，说不准，应该是利用类似“虚拟内存”技术吧。不过你说得对，现在内存太便宜。所以呢也把Linux开发者们给惯坏了，不考虑使用的效率。 -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768525@0)

people, chairman said years ago. it is people. -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 {159} (#3768649@0)
if developer are developing codes for BSD in a larger scale, it would be the same thing.
as soon as BSD goes to a large crowd, it will go down the same road.

interesting point. but i am not sure :) -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768722@0)

最欣赏freebsd的地方，除了高效的内核，主要在于，Freebsd走的是bsd license,linux是gnu GPL license,这两个的差别太大了。 -kramer(Cosmo Kramer); 2007-6-27 (#3768061@0)

请多讲两句，在下愿闻其详！谢谢。 -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768503@0)

简单地说，BSD license的软件可以被修改，开发人员可以不公开自己修改过的代码，只需要在源代码里保持bsd license说明，让后来的开发人员知道你是基于BSD license code 开发的即可。gpl license必须公开自己修改过得code。 -kramer(Cosmo Kramer); 2007-6-27 {114} (#3768701@0)
这一点对一些基于opensource开发的公司很重要，这些公司一般不愿意公开自己的code，所以愿意使用BSD license的opensource.

good to know, although this is not relevant to myself. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768718@0)
that's the good point, so who is the "open" one here? BSD licenses or GPL licenses? -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 (#3768721@0)

无法评论那一个license更开放，从让别人使用起来更自由的角度来说bsd-license比gpl-license更自由，其实最free的license是MIT-license,它根本就不保留版权(copyright),是真正的自由软件，象X-window,expat，etc。 -kramer(Cosmo Kramer); 2007-6-27 (#3768818@0)

i kind of disagree, from a user's perspective, maybe some org/corp don't like GPL licenses and favour BSD like, those are usually the ones got money from their proprietary software. I don't blame them. -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 {112} (#3769441@0)
I think the GPL license is the better choice for a real developer where the fame and reputation really stand up.

小小的更正：这些license 只有在你要redistribute 的时候才起作用。如果，你该了GPL'd 软件，但是，你不redistribute, 你的改动不需要open source. -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768723@0)

多谢更正，这就是说自己使用修改不用公开源代码，给别人使用,gpl'd必须公开code. -kramer(Cosmo Kramer); 2007-6-27 (#3768759@0)

Yes. :) -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3769325@0)

问题在于你redistribute的是什么。我不认为就因为我在Linux上开发了点什么然后把它卖给客户我就应该公开源代码 -charlesdong(eggs in baskets); 2007-6-28 {67} (#3770560@0)
但LINUX的协议就在要求我这么做。I have a problem with this approach.

你可以去读一下GPL。GPL 作用于derived work。譬如说，你在gcc的代码上，作了一些改进。当你要把这个新的gcc给我用的时候，你要公开代码。但是，你写了一段C程序，用了gcc去编译，你的这段c程序不需要公开代码。 -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-28 (#3770662@0)

I have never read detail about GPL, but we had a software in out company which is using iptables library, and we have to make our source code open we just make a call to iptable to read packet. -longjian(龙箭); 2007-6-28 (#3772692@0)

That's true, because your software is considered a derived work of a GPL'd software. Without the GPL'd software, your software would not work. In my example, your C executable can still work without any GCC libraries. -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-29 (#3773134@0)

where you found freebsd does not have GNU GPL licenses? -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 (#3768587@0)

i think the two are mingling with each other quite a bit nowadays (except the kernels), e.g., there are linux compatible packages for fbsd. -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768616@0)
The BSD kernel is licensed under BSD license while applications that can run on top of the kernel can be licensed under any license. -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-27 (#3768670@0)

absolutely! -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 (#3768712@0)
正解。 -kramer(Cosmo Kramer); 2007-6-27 (#3768717@0)

从源代码最开始的license说明可以看到。其实google一下两个license，再看看license的连接例子就可以知道。 -kramer(Cosmo Kramer); 2007-6-27 (#3768714@0)

do u know freebsd is restricted by US technology protection/export law? -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 (#3768552@0)

i don't think it's the case anymore (since 4-5 yrs ago?). i've been using both freebsd and linux since 1998. plus, u can -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 {169} (#3768585@0)
always use OpenBSD, which is developed at U of Calgary, to show patriotism. OpenBSD is pretty much the same as FreeBSD AND its code is audited line by line for security.

guess u r either too young or too old. -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 {105} (#3768660@0)

same kind of person cheered for linux 10 years ago. let's see if BSD can be this popular after 10 years.

too old! -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 {182} (#3768707@0)
i am not cheering for bsd's victory at all. as a matter of fact, bsd is losing the lead to linux since about 5 yrs ago. my above writing is the final 挽歌 to (f)bsd, if you wish! :D

Does anyone know what is the minimum size of a compiled Linux or Free BSD. I would like to migrate my embedded devices to use these OS if it doesn't require too much memory for smaller embedded system. -useless(爱雨虹); 2007-6-27 (#3769295@0)

check this, http://bengross.com/smallunix.html or http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/, it really depends on what and how many things u want in ur own distro. -buma(蔓毒黛扬); 2007-6-27 (#3769377@0)

thank you. -useless(爱雨虹); 2007-6-29 (#3774208@0)

thanks for all your postings! this is cool, now i have at least two more names, iexcel and kramer, on my radar when it comes to technical stuff (a sense of community, eh?) -linjiaotou(林教头); 2007-6-27 {313} (#3769374@0)

my primary reason of using (F)BSD is it has the native OS for networking - as a matter of fact, TCP/IP for today's Internet was borrowed from it - because i was/am a network guy.

another reason is when i was poor and couldn't afford a higher-priced PC to run UNIX, I found FBSD a better choice than Linux. :)

至关重要的区别在版权协议上 -charlesdong(eggs in baskets); 2007-6-28 {23} (#3770558@0)

LINUX的版权协议类似圈套

各自侧重点不同。不能算是“圈套”。 -iexcel(馄饨面); 2007-6-28 (#3770666@0)

@Sacramento

为开放源代码的先锋ＦｒｅｅＢＳＤ说几句

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